Dig This Treasure!

So my New York adventures continue with a trip to Obscura Antiques & Oddities.  You may remember my post from a few months back in which I interviewed Obscura’s Ryan Matthew.  He and the store are featured in Science Channel’s Oddities.  Since I only knew about the store from this TV show, and from the interview, Zach and I decided to go check it all out in person.

Everything in New York opens super late, which we weren’t aware of.  Heading to Obscura, we saw Ryan Matthew sitting on the steps outside.  We breezed past and killed some time by drinking $13 raw juice smoothies (only in New York!).  When we got back, the store was open, and packed with people.

My first thought was that it looked EXACTLY like the TV show.  I know this seems obvious, but I once visited the pawn shop featured on History Channel’s Pawn Stars, and it looked completely different in person.  Mostly everything in Obscura has been featured on the show, or is visible while watching the show.

The store is really cool.  It is full of so many things.  The first item that really caught my eye was this taxidermy pig.  It looked less like real taxidermy and more like an adorable Steiff collectible.

Ok so actually, in this picture, he looks terrifying.  Trust me that in person he was cute. Anyway, at this point, I introduced myself to Ryan Matthew and asked about the pig.  He told me that it was a Victorian specimen and not for sale.  If it was for sale, it would be about $5,000.  

Ryan also told me that he confuses “Dig This Treasure” with the phrase “Take This Bottle”, which is a “phrase” I have actually never heard of.  I am thinking this is some sort of word association thing having to do with messages in a bottle/pirates/buried treasure.  Who knows.  Either that, or Ryan is the Zodiac killer and speaking to me in ciphers.  

Zach and I didn’t find anything to buy at Obscura, even though we went there determined to do so.  Everything was pretty out of our price range or wouldn’t fit on the plane home.  I kind of regret not buying a t-shirt from the store because it had a nice design. Whomp whomp.  

-Erin

As mentioned, I was lucky enough to get in contact with Ryan Matthew Cohn from SCIENCE’s cult-hit Oddities. I was hoping he would humor our little blog with a mere email correspondence, but instead, he was kind enough to chat with me on the phone last week. So if you’re wondering what a real child’s skeleton might cost you these days, or you have questions about bejeweled human skulls, look no further…

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

Alright, so let’s start with the obvious, how did you get into collecting?

I’ve always had the bug. It’s something you are born with. My mom had it to an extent, but she wasn’t obsessive compulsive like I am. She collected old quilts and baskets, things like that. And she wouldn’t bombard the house with them like I do now with my collection. I grew up in upstate New York, in the woods, and I would find roadkill or animals eaten by bears…and I would bring them back to the house. My mom probably thought I was going to be a doctor or a serial killer…which I didn’t become either.

Well, that you are willing to admit anyway…

Hahahahaha, exactly. So anyway, it went from natural history stuff to collecting stuff I would find at the thrift store. And then when I was 10, I collected baseball cards. But it wasn’t just collecting baseball cards…I obsessively collected baseball cards until my whole room was filled. And then I moved on, and it became more art-based, and then I got into the oddities world.

What was the first oddities piece you ever bought?

Well, there typically is a piece that sets you into like a fury…a piece that sets exactly what you are going to collect for the next 5 years. For me, that piece was a taxidermy dog I got. It’s a real nice old one. It’s a mid-size hunting dog from the Victorian era, obviously someone’s pet. It was in a really nice glass case and at the time I didn’t have a car or anything. I called my dad, who was living in Jersey, and he picked me up at 4:30 in the morning in Manhattan, and we drove all the way out to Yonkers to go to this estate sale. I already knew it [the dog] was going to be there, and we had to wait out in the rain. And then other people were looking at it…but finally, I picked it up. It was kind of a lot of money for me at the time. I think it was $400. And it’s like one of those things, from there I went crazy and started collecting taxidermy and selling it, and manipulating it.

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

And then the first skeleton I got, it was partially put together…and I got to see, ok…this spring holds this together…and it was like a big puzzle. So I put that together, and then I got obsessed with putting skeletons together. So it all sort of blossomed…doing this kind of work that I do now–manipulating skeletons, started with this one.

So it seems as though you guys work with a lot of antique dealers on Oddities, but where else are you finding these treasures?

Where am I finding this stuff? It’s kind of a mixture. There are flea markets, those for me are the most fun. It’s like this big treasure hunt and you never know what you are going to come across. And you are there at like 3am, it’s cold, it’s dark out, it’s raining. That scares some people away, but then you have the hardcore people who might be looking for the same thing as you. So you might walk away with a candlestick, or like the rarest object you’ve been looking for your whole life. And there is this adrenaline rush that comes with going to these things. Although at this point in my life, I don’t go there with any expectations. I don’t even go at 3am anymore. I straggle in later and will find something that someone else has overlooked.

Yeah, our site is primarily about estate sales, so I know what you mean about the adrenaline rush and finding that thing you’re really looking for…

I’ve found that the rarest stuff will come to you. It actually will. I’m not being superstitious–I’m not a superstitious person–like the other day, for instance, I got a call from someone who said they had a lot of cool stuff in their basement I might be interested in. So I go out and it’s like stuff I’ve had interviews about looking to find, and they had it. And I just basically got it because they were cool and they liked me.

So what have been some of your best finds?

Some of the mummified stuff, and some of the elongated skulls, and then like the medical collections from places that have gone out of business. I love those because you never really know what is in a jar until you get it home and look through it.

A lot of the stuff I’ve gotten is in bulk…collections I have gotten in boxes that take me a week to sort through. I’ll have what looks like a normal bone or box of bones and I put it together and it turns out to be someone who had a severe abnormality.

So who are the people who have–well you said medical collections–but have you met people who are like, “Oh hey, I have a jar of bones just hanging out in my basement.”

That happens quite a lot actually. We really put ourselves out there with the show. We used to have to locate this stuff but now people contact me because they know I am interested in it. They sort of want to hear our expertise. Situations like that, if they could happen everyday, that would be cool. Although looking around for the stuff is half the fun…

My question about people’s basements was more…well, we have seen a lot of crazy things while out at estate sales. I guess my question was are these people like you who also collect or do you literally have people who for some crazy reason have bones in their basements?

A lot of people’s families were in the medical field. They don’t necessarily do this today, but back in the day, when you went to med school, you had to buy a skull. It was just part of learning the cranium. So for all of those millions of people who went to med school–they might have passed on–and the family didn’t know what to do with the skull so they put it in the basement. When they move, well it’s, “I don’t want to bring this skull with me!” That’s how stuff is changing hands. A lot of the time, a physician might retire and they don’t want to take this stuff with them to Boca Raton…they want to retire, not with a full child skeleton. Those are my favorite times because they are happy for these things to find a home.

I also have a problem because I am such a collector, so a lot of stuff that comes through me ends up in my personal collection.

Yes, the photos of your collection look amazing. So let’s say your house is burning down, what do you grab?

Oh, I don’t like to talk about that. Fire is not my friend, even though I use it for a living. I don’t know. I don’t think there is one thing I could grab. I might have to die with my things.

That’s fair.

I give little tours to people, clients or whatever, and I always go around and say, oh this is one of my favorites pieces…and I say it about like every piece.

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

So if I say “favorite piece”, what pops into your head?

My fetal skeleton.

Your what?

My fetal skeleton. It’s a child. Those just as far as skeletons go, are very difficult to find. I actually have a funny story about that little guy. I was supposed to move out of my apartment and into a new one. This was back in the day and I didn’t really have any money, and I spent my deposit money–much to my girlfriend’s at the time chagrin–and thank God she could spot me because I spent all my money on this skeleton. It’s really cool. I still have it to this day. I keep it on my mantel in the living room.

How small is it?

Um, it’s about 2 feet or so, which is perfect. It is a really nice, old one. The day I found it–it was from a dealer friend of mine–and I said to him, “Hey, I’m looking for a child skeleton. If you ever come across one…I don’t have a huge budget, but I really want one.” And he didn’t say anything, he just pointed to a shelf and there it was.

So what does a child skeleton run you these days?

Well, the store Evolution has them and they are $1000, but you could be lucky and sometimes get them a lot cheaper.

Oh, ok. Interesting.

Well they are a lot more rare. Children die a lot less frequently than older specimens.

And I would imagine that most people are burying or cremating their kids.

Yeah, children don’t as readily leave themselves to science. That is ultimately how a skeleton is bought…someone leaves their body to science. The organs and tissue are used to save lives and then the skeleton is cleaned and used for medical purposes.

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

Ok, so what is your holy grail? The thing you have yet to find but always hope that you do.

That’s hard because I have found a lot of things I have strived to find. There is always stuff. Hmm, what do I want? What do I want that you people can get for me…

Yeah, put it out there into the world so someone can read this and get it for you.

I was answering this same question a month or so ago and literally a week later I found the piece I was looking for, which was an elongated skull from Peru. And a real drastic one. Um, I don’t know…you know, one of the things I have been focusing on is mummification. And more medical mummification as opposed to Egyptian mummification. Egyptians were wrapped and typically done centuries ago. Medical mummification hasn’t been around as long. It was used to educate people who didn’t want to use wax specimens, because wax melts and is expensive. So they came up with a preservation not unlike plastinating something. They usually use nasty chemicals like arsenic and mercury. But some of these things still come up and are preserved that way. So think “Body World” and plastination but a way earlier form, from the 18th and 19th century. I just recently came across one and was flabbergasted.

(Photo by Sergio Royzen, courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

Oh, you know, really, my holy grail…sorry, there is like so many things…

No, don’t apologize, put it out there…

Shrunken heads are like my main focus. I don’t have one right now. I sold one I had awhile back and I really regret it. That’s one of the things that just is not coming up these days.

You know, I held a real shrunken head once. That’s something I can say I’ve done in my life. I used to work in museum prep at a natural history museum, and the Anthropology department had some they kept locked up.

Yeah, what were they doing? It was just part of the collection huh?

Yeah, part of the collection, but not on exhibit.

Most Anthropology departments have stuff like that and you’ll see the craziest stuff in the back room. It just pains me because it is supposed to be an educational tool and of course, it’s just sitting back there. It makes me crazy.

Yeah, they had it all locked up. I think they were worried about the cultural implications of it, putting it on display. Anyway, a shrunken head, I would think you would already have one of those.

I have had a few and resold them because I needed money, or I traded them. And now it’s like the one thing I really want back, and of course if is one of the hardest things to find–especially like long hair shrunken heads. Ripley’s Believe It or Not has bought most of them, so they are extremely hard to find…of course, they have a bigger budget than private collectors. So when they come up, they are really expensive.

Alright, well, we will put it out there. Maybe in like a week you will get a package and there will be a tiny head inside…

I want to report back to you and say that that happened.

(Photo by Sergio Royzen, courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

So this may be a silly question after talking about shrunken heads, but is there anything that comes into Obscura or that you have seen that is too freaky even for you?

I get really weird about certain types of taxidermy and the fear that it might have bugs.

Wait, you’re not worried about like arsenic in it, but you are worried about bugs?

Uh, no. Believe it or not, because I collect a lot of Victorian taxidermy–or I did a lot more than I do now–but of course, antique taxidermy had arsenic in it. And I never wore gloves. When I work with mummification, I wear gloves and a mask. But anyway, bugs could easily get into your collection and ruin it.

Oh I see! You are worried about taking bugs home. I thought you were saying you were scared of bugs!

No, no, no. I grew up in the woods.

Well, then, is there anything that is too gross or too sensitive for you to own?

Are we specifically talking about in this field or antiques in general?

Anything.

I hate Christmas collectibles. I don’t hate Christmas, Christmas is alright. But I hate…like, you’ll spend 3 hours at some flea market and you’ll see a bunch of vintage Christmas decorations. And it bums me out.

Uh, oh…I don’t know if you will like our blog much then.

People get pissed when you say you don’t like those things.

Well yeah, that’s a whole market. There is money to be made with that stuff.

Animatronic Santas…those things bug me so much. I mean, I’m not scared of them or freaked out…

It’s just gross to you.

Yeah, exactly. Also, I have a keen sense of smell, so things that are potent occasionally gross me out. Say you have to change the liquid in something being preserved, even with a mask, that stuff is gruesome. Actually, when I have had to clean skeletons myself, they are sometimes disgusting. They have the meat on them. It’s the stench you can’t get out of your nostrils.

Ugh, I bet. Alright, well tell me about those other hobbies–taxidermy, skull manipulation, and your store Against Nature.

In a sense, it is really two businesses. It has gone beyond hobbies. I know Mike and Evan [from Obscura] because I have always done articulations for them. You know, people who want skeletons done. I do that mainly at my home studio. And then I have a studio at Against Nature. I own that business with a couple friends. We do custom suits, and I do the accessories here. I actually used to do a lot of work with Ralph Lauren as a designer, so when I stopped working with them, we started this business. It’s in the Lower East side of Manhattan. We primarily do the custom suits, called bespoke suits, custom denim…and we do everything in house.

Oh cool.

I was a jeweler before I was–I guess you would say an osteologist.

Were you a formally trained jeweler and that sort of morphed into…

I was a collector first, and then I got a paid internship as a jeweler’s assistant…to a man who was Ralph Lauren’s first jewelry maker. He taught me what I know. Luckily, for osteology and medical preparation, the same tools are used, so I was able to segue, mixing all these things together. When you’re working with skulls, you are also working with brass hardware, and I can make a skull look 300 years old, and that is from working in antique restoration. So I am using all the categories as one…

I am actually doing a skull right now…I can’t go too far into it, but it looks like something a 15th century king would have on their bedstand.

When will it be done?

A couple months.

It’s for you or a client?

A special order for a client. We are collaborating on the idea for it, and I am executing it, no pun intended. It’s going to be very regal.

Bejeweled?

Possibly.

We’ll have to wait and see then. Send us a photo of it when it’s done.

Alright, I promise.

(Photo courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

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You can read more about Ryan Matthew Cohn at his website ryanmatthewoddities.com and on his tumblr page. Be sure to check out Oddities this June for the second-half of the third season. It airs Saturdays at 9pm on SCIENCE.

-Erin

So this entry is a teaser for a SERIOUSLY AWESOME entry that will launch on Friday.  If you are not familiar with the TV show, Oddities, then you should check it out.  It airs on SCIENCE, and the second-half of the third season picks back up in June.

Oddities explores the fascinating world of scientific artifacts–taxidermy, quack medical devices, preserved specimens, and so on.  The show is based out of Obscura, an antique store in Manhattan that wheels and deals in this type of collecting.  It follows co-owners Mike Zohn and Evan Michelson, as well as their buyer Ryan Matthew Cohn, who finds the treasures being sold.

(Photo courtesy of Discovery Channel Networks.)

So we thought, “Hey! Who better to talk about antiques and treasure hunting with than Mr. Ryan Matthew himself.”  Luckily, he was gracious enough to spend some time on the phone with me last week, and talk all about his wild and wacky collection.

(Photo by Sergio Royzen, courtesy of Ryan Matthew)

But before the interview is posted on Friday, we wanted to brush you all up on the show.  So watch the video below, check out the Oddities website, and get ready to hear about one of the strangest hobbies out there.  You think we buy crazy things?  Well, just wait… 

-Erin